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More tourists staying in Estonia in Q1

Any theories as to why? This isn't the year of culture anymore, nor are there any big football matches that were used to explain last year's growth. Reply to the comment answer
~Numbers [10.05.2012, 12:09]
It looks like most of the growth came from Russian New Year's tourists, so maybe the travel agencies are doing a better job of marketing such packages.
~ameeriklane [10.05.2012, 12:31]
Also, Russia's Gross Domestic Product for 2011 grew to almost 1500 billion dollars, after it came down in 2010 to 1200 billion dollars from the historical high of 1660.85 billion dollars in December of 2008.
~knut albers [10.05.2012, 12:48]
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Firstly the tourism figures should be looked at very carefully as they are usually bolstered and inflated deliberately to justify the fact that EAS and the Tourism ministry is doing a good job. This is standard practice and there are also EU loan components that good into the potential (fudging) of these figures
Next look at what constitutes a tourist: are they business related, traveller over a period of weeks, backpacker, student, passing through, day tripper, EU expat with home here but no residency etc etc The list goes on, so please do not be fooled on the 'growth' numbers, and ask better questions of Tallinn City and EAS of these numbers.
Also as border control checks are limited and there is not so much of a need to handover passports and ID numbers on check in, please explain to me how the numbers can be possibly verified. The EAS would argue that there may be more people than they have had figures for. But ultimately they rely on hotels for their figures and I have no yet met a hotel that is transparent on its figures either for tax reasons or for shareholder valuation.
Next you must look at the markets from where the tourists are coming, and see who is providing the marketing. This I think you will find tends to be proactive hotels, and local DMC's who make in roads into their own target markets. It is certainly not the government. Where was the Estonia stand at the World Travel Market in London this year?
Finally I suggest that you need to look not just at the total number of tourists but also the number of nights stayed, the ARR (average room rate) and how much was spent on an average stay and where. I think it will make for interesting reading, as the majority is still being spent in Tallinn with no infrastructural investment by the government being made in the other potential tourism centres of Estonia.
For the last 12 years I have followed with interst the announcements about tourism growth. Of course growth is happening, but every time it is announced it is done so in a way that makes Tallinn sound that simple numbers justifies everything, including the consistent anomaly of bad and ineffectual customer service. This is a more important issue to address. How many of those 'international' tourists were satisfied with the value of their retail experience, for example?

Anyway that was my lunchtime rant .....Just some suggestions for someone in the industry. Reply to the comment answer
~Expat [11.05.2012, 14:02]
After reading all that I am still left with the thought: if you think the stats are inaccurate, prove it. Be like ameeriklane and give facts with sources to back it up. All else is speculation.
~@Expat [11.05.2012, 17:21]
How funny, someone voices doubts about these statistics and they are asked to "prove" otherwise. Yet when there are statistics about hungry children in Estonia, there is a chorus of voices coming up with a dozen reasons why those statistics should not be taken at face value and should be analysed far deeper. Double standards?
~:-[] [12.05.2012, 02:21]
Welcome back AR! If someone challenges official statistics (this article is based on data from Statistics Estonia), then that person has the burden of proof to support his or her challenge with other official sources, not just speculation. Regarding the hunger issue, that article and the data involved were not from Statistics Estonia or any other similar source. Even ameeriklane expressed some reservations about it.
~Tourist Invasion [12.05.2012, 08:58]
Some numbers we can sort of extrapolate. The article says 71k Russian tourists stayed in accommodation establishments.

This article:
says how many visas were issued at Estonian embassies/consulates in Russia in 2011. It totals to about 72,000. However, Russians who already have a Schengen visa can enter Estonia without getting a new visa, so that could further increase the number.

The article also notes that about 14k visas were issued in Minsk. How come we never hear about Belarussian tourists? 14k is a rather large number -- are they mostly Russian citizens? (I don't know.. just asking)

I would say the Russian tourism numbers, since we do have visa application information to support it, do seem to be fairly accurate. The Latvian tourism numbers would be harder to get good data on since they're likely to cross by land and don't need a visa.

For Finnish tourists, I assume most come by boat. I don't remember if you have to list your citizenship when buying a boat ticket. If they do, that would be a good method to determine how many Finnish are coming.
~ameeriklane [14.05.2012, 12:27]
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Estonia has for common Germans the same status like Bulgaria (DLF "Europamanifest", Deutschlandfunk) Reply to the comment answer
~scheileke [11.05.2012, 15:50]
I guess for tourists in the meantime Estonia is much more expensive than Bulgaria.
~kloty [12.05.2012, 01:56]
You two are never happy. Few years ago you echoed insultive comments. S used the word sluts and parasites as I can remember.
Normal people are welcome, freaks are not.
~S&K [14.05.2012, 15:51]
I only write this, what I get from the German media ( radio, TV)
~scheileke [15.05.2012, 10:00]
One thing more S&K, in German: "Halt´s Maul, Sowjet."
~scheileke [15.05.2012, 10:41]
"Es ist bisweilen erstaunlich, mit welch ausgesuchter Hoeflichkeit intergalaktische Voelker miteinander kommunizieren ..."

Aus dem Perry Rhodan Cartoon vom Freitag, den 10. August 2007.
~knut albers [15.05.2012, 12:59]
Meine verbale Hand ist mir ausgerutscht. Tut mir leid. Aber ich habe auch keine Lust, mich beschimpfen zu lassen, wenn ich nur das wiedergebe, was im Radio (in diesem Falle Deutschlandfunk)gebracht wurde. wenn jemand damit Probleme hat, sollte er sich an die Rundfunkanstalten wenden.
~scheileke [15.05.2012, 14:12]
Es ist ganz normal, dass bei so einer "Intelligenzija" hier in Estland einem manchmal einfach der Geduldsfaden reisst.

Dass isch a bockelharts Gschaeft hier, keine Frage.
~knut albers [15.05.2012, 14:53]
"Intelligenzbestien" wäre treffender. Bisweilen besticht mich die Provinzialität so, dass ich wahrlich nur staunend mit offenem Mund dastehen kann. Sowas erinnert mich an die guten 60er Jahre in Deutschland, so Quakenbrück-mässig. Aber was soll´s. Da muss man durch, hatte einst mein Chef in Hamburg gesagt.
Schönen Nachmittag wünsche ich noch.
~scheileke [15.05.2012, 16:52]
Estland ist ganz schildkroetenmaessig Dittsche in ueberperlter Schlummerbrandform.

Allerdings haben die Schumiletten mit Supernetto Plastiktasche im Supermarkt schon etwas provinziell komisches an sich.

Dafuer hat man allerdings ausserhalb der Trabantenzonen vonnaturaus seine Ruhe und die Nordmann Traveller halten die Frauen hier ja anunfuersich auch fuer ganz muggelig, so "sauerer Bauer sucht suesse Frau" maessig und Bier, Sauerkraut, Wurscht und Bundesliga gibt's auch hier, dass haengt ja alles mit'n'anner zu tun.

Also ich bin hier ganz normal in einer gemuetlichn Atmosphaere, do moecht ich jetzt ers mal anunfuersich nich weiter gestoert werden, das bleibt mir doch voellig unbenommen.

Heute hab'n sie wieder gesacht, dass die Russen gleich einmaschieren, da muss ich mir noch vorher ein letztes verperltes Bier holen, ob nu dies oder das passiert, oder die Linde rauscht...
~knut albers [15.05.2012, 18:10]
Die Russen kommen. Ich dachte die wären schon hier, in Lasnamäe. Man lernt ja nie aus. Am ersten gibt´s wieder frische Knete und ich denke, wenn Frau nicht zu Hause ist, werde ich ´n schönen irischen oder schottischen Whiskey holen und was nettes zu Futtern machen. Du bist eingeladen, wenn Dich Jazz alter ... hm ... Deutschrock und so was nicht stört. Ich werde auch ein paar andere Leute einladen, Matthias zum Beispiel, junger Kerl, etwas über 40, aber okay. So nun aber, bis dann.
~scheileke [15.05.2012, 19:13]
Wieso, dass stand doch im Internet, also muss dass doch wahr sein.

So, und nu pass auf!

Vitrinenkontakt, ist jetzt das Stichwort!

Ich bring dann ein erstklassiges Bootsmann-Bier mit, dass perlt aber du.

Du, Thomas, weissu was, Dittsches Heimspiel hatten se vom Wedeh R aber auch gleich in irgend so'ner Bruchbude von Lasname drehen koennen, also Zusammenhaengung jetzt:

~knut albers [16.05.2012, 19:46]
Allens kloar!
Tut mir leid, dass ich mich gestern nicht gemeldet habe, ich musste den neuen Comic abgeben, mein Freiexemplar abholen und in der werbefirma meine Freiexemplare abholen. Das war ziemlich rund, aber auch gut.
Wenn ich Dir jetzt meine E-mail-adresse hier hinschreibe, kann ich davon ausgehen, dass ich nächster Zukunft bitter-ätzende Post von einigen anderen Leuten in diesem Forum bekomme, mein Freund. Deshalb werde ich Dir schon rechtzeitig Bescheid geben. Wie sagte ein berühmter Gallier so sinngemäss? "Die spinnen, die Esten!"
~scheileke [17.05.2012, 08:21]
Nimm dich mal im Acht vom alten Schweden "Sven Soeson".

Der schickt mir immer liebevolle Scam-Abmahnungen, in der Hoffnung, dass ich mal im Urlaub bin und die Widerspruchsfrist verpasse.

Naja, ist ja sein Geld, was er da verbrennt, nä, nä, nä, vä, vä, vä?

Ich schick dir im Laufe des Tages mal ne email, also keine Abmahnung jetzt.

Bin auch ansonsten anunfuersich auf Facebook zu finden.
~knut albers [17.05.2012, 10:38]
Up to eight logical ranks per DDR3 bus (sixteen per Intel 7500/7510/7512
Scalable Memory Buffer).
— 800 MT/s, 978 MT/s, or 1067 MT/s (both DDR3 buses must operate at the
same frequency).
— Single Rank x4, Dual Rank x4, Single Rank x8, Dual Rank x8, Quad Rank x4,
Quad Rank x8
— 1 GB, 2 GB, 4 GB, 8 GB, 16 GB, and 32 GB DIMM (Intel 7500 Scalable Memory
Buffer does not support 32 GB DIMMs)
— DRAM device sizes: 1 Gb, 2 Gb, 4 Gb (Intel 7500 Scalable Memory Buffer does
not support 4 Gb device size)
— DIMMs with independent device configurations.
DIMMs with different numbers of row, column, bank and ranks can be mixed.
DIMMs with different device sizes can be mixed.
DIMMs with x4 and x8 widths can be mixed. (Host lockstep requirements may
impose additional requirements on DIMMs on separate Intel SMI channels).
~useful [17.05.2012, 14:07]
Danke, aber er würde in meine Mail nicht durchkommen (gesichert).
Facebook? Meist übers Wochende. Und dann über das Thema Europa, welches mir mehr am Herzen liegt als der, in diesem Falle zu vernachlässigende Faktor Estland. Der Populismus, egal, ob rechts oder links und die "Kompetenz" unserer Europäischen Regierungen, macht mir schon zu schaffen.
Hm, vielleicht bin ich wirklich schon zu alt und verkalkt und komme mit der neuen Zeit nicht mit: Jeder muss ein Gewinner sein, egal ob Deutschland, Frankreich oder sonstwo, die Bevölkerung Europas ist angewidert und wählt radikal. Spinner, wie die Salafisten zum Beispiel, Nazis oder auch Kommies bekommen mehr und mehr Zulauf, und das bereitet mir Sorge. Natürlich war es damals nicht besser, RAF-Gewalt, der Rudi-Dutschke-Mord, aber irgendwie gab es noch ein Gefühl für Demokratie und nicht sosehr für sinnlose Gewalt und... naja, sinnlosen Überkonsum.
~scheileke [17.05.2012, 14:59]
Die europaeische Union muss ihr Demokratiedefizit beseitigen und vor allem ihre Kompetenzen eindeutig klaeren.

Solange ein Kanzler der Justiz Estlands ueberhaupt noch wagen kann, Nachverhandlungen von der estnischen Rgierung zu verlangen, was den ESM betrifft, wird die EU zum Spielball der Mitgliedsstaaten weiterhin missbraucht werden.

So warte ich auch immer noch auf die Einfuehrung einer konsequenten Unionsbuergerschaft fuer alle mit gleichen Rechten in allen Mitgliedsstaaten, eine europaweite Volksbstimmung eines EU-Verfassungsvertrags.

Derzeit leben wir einer Union ohne einem Staat, welche in 27 Staaten zersplittert ist.

Klar, dass man da den Nationalisten eine Platform bietet.

Naja, mein EU-Wort zum Sonntag halt - fuer BBN-Leser jetzt schon imme vorab Donnerstags.
~knut albers [17.05.2012, 15:54]
Ja, meine Kleine hatte es mir erzählt über den Wunsch der Nachverhandlungen, da der ESM nicht konform zum estnischen Grundgesetz wäre und die estnische Souveränität beschneide, was fraglich ist, eine Art "Minigriechenland", nur nicht so drastisch. Ich klage auch nicht die jeweilige Bevölkerung an, sondern die Willkürlichkeit und im Grunde Scheiss-egal-Mentalität der Regierungen. Sieh die FDP zum Beispiel, kein Programm oder jetzt Röttgen. Er ist draussen, weil Hannelore Kraft die Wahlen in NRW entschieden hat. Mit "draussen" meine ich, dass die Chefin ihn gefeuert hat. In Britannien herrscht ein gedecktes Chaos, die Regierung dort schimpft auf den "schwachen Euro" und die Europäische Schuldenkrise, wer den Stachel im anderen Auge sucht, sieht den eigenen Balken nicht. Und Griechenland? Spanien? Spanien hat, so glaube ich, über 30 Prozent Jugendarbeitslosigkeit.
Hier in Estland schimpft man auf den "faulen, Ouzo trinkenden" Griechen.
Ja, das ist auch ein Problem hier, das Nichtinteresse an globalen oder Europäischen Nachrichten und Hintergrundwissen, das "Nicht über den eigenen Tellerrand-Schauen, aber sich trotzdem eine Meinung bilden". Unglaublich, man kann bei dieser Mentalität nur hoffen, dass der Schuss nicht nach hinten losgeht.
~scheileke [17.05.2012, 16:21]
So, ich muss Schluss machen, seit halb fünf steh´ ich auf der Matte, und ich merke, dass ich an Substanz verliere. Heute nur bis zu den Tagesthemen, und dann ab ins Bett.
Morgen, weiss nicht.
´n paar Filmtipps auf dem Weg: "Der Dieb von Bagdad" immer noch aufregend, in YouTube natürlich oder "Bambi", deutsche Version (kein Scheiss!). Das war mein allererster Kinofim mit Vaddern. Ich denke, er bereute es spätestens als Bambis Mutter umgebracht wurde. Er hatte alle Hände voll zu tun, um mich wieder zu beruhigen. Da war ich vier oder so. Die Beatles waren in, im Fernsehen gab es "Beatclub"mit Uschi Dingsdabumsda, und wir haben draussen allein, ohne Erwachsene, Acrion gemacht. Dementsprechend sahen wir auch abends aus.
Bis dann.
~scheileke [17.05.2012, 17:22]
The southbound input link is 10 lanes wide (plus an 11th spare lane) and carries
commands and write data from the host memory controller.
The northbound output link is 13 lanes wide (plus a 14th spare lane) and carries read
return data or status information from the Intel 7500/7510/7512 Scalable Memory
Buffer back towards the host.
~useful.info [17.05.2012, 17:31]
DDR3 builds off of the foundation of the DDR2 architecture, providing higher speed
operation, as well as additional features.
Each DDR3 bus supports up to two DIMMs, and up to eight logical ranks of eight banks
with 16 row/column request, 64 data signals, and eight check-bit signals. Intel
7500/7510/7512 Scalable Memory Buffer supports four-transfer bursts on the data and
check-bit lines at 800 MT/s, 978 MT/s or 1067 MT/s.
Supported DIMM types are:
• DDR3L RDIMM (Low Voltage DDR3 RDIMMs @1.35 V) (not supported by Intel 7500
Scalable Memory Buffer)
In this specification, the term DIMM may be used interchangeably to refer to DDR3
RDIMM, or DDR3L RDIMM unless a specific DIMM type is called out.
Propagation delays between read and write data strobe lanes on a given bus can differ.
Each strobe can be calibrated by hardware state machines during boot.
~useful.info [17.05.2012, 17:33]
1.1 Fundamental Notions and Laws
In the present chapter we are concerned primarily with certain elementary properties
of the positive integers 1, 2, 3, 4, . . . It will sometimes be convenient, when
no confusion can arise, to employ the word integer or the word number in the
sense of positive integer.
We shall suppose that the integers are already defined, either by the process
of counting or otherwise. We assume further that the meaning of the terms
greater, less, equal, sum, difference, product is known.
From the ideas and definitions thus assumed to be known follow immediately
the theorems:
I. The sum of any two integers is an integer.
II. The difference of any two integers is an integer.
III. The product of any two integers is an integer.
Other fundamental theorems, which we take without proof, are embodied in
the following formulas: Here a, b, c denote any positive integers.
~useful.info [17.05.2012, 17:45]
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Hi. Actually on reflection I was wrong and now understand that you must always believe what the government figures without questioning them.
You must always trust elected politicians and you must always trust that there are no hidden agendas.
I apologise unreservedly for even suggesting otherwise and despite history proving otherwise I totally accept how wrong I was in suggesting that a closer look at tourism figures should be made.
I apologise for sharing my experience of the industry and I realise now that before making a comment I should be able to come up with hard facts, similar to the quality of those provide by Statistics Estonia.
Congratulations to EAS, Ministry of Tourism and apologies to any reader who was offended by my misplaced assertion that maybe, just maybe, some one is telling you only what they want to.
Apologies... I shall now go and purge myself and then seek medical advice to have a frontal labotomy or at the very least electric shock therapy. Reply to the comment answer
~expat [13.05.2012, 21:49]
No, just reliable sources to back up assertions.
~Juku [14.05.2012, 11:53]
It is not illegal to disagree with authority or to share our personal opinions. The government works for us, so we ask the questions here and raise our doubts, when we want, where we want it, and how we want. We do not answer to them.
~knut albers [14.05.2012, 12:10]
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I was traveling in Estonia two weeks this spring. Two things were clear. First the russian guests often behawed as a group of elephants loose in the zoo, second the standard of hotells and the rooms were very different, from good to terribel in a way that does not exist in wesstern Europe. And finaly the Tallink ship that took me to and from Tallinn were a terribel noicy and dirty experience. Reply to the comment answer
~Anders [14.05.2012, 08:29]
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"I was traveling in Estonia two weeks this spring."

I just don't care.

"And finaly the Tallink ship that took me to and from Tallinn were a terribel noicy and dirty experience."

Not my problem. Reply to the comment answer
~knut albers [15.05.2012, 13:40]
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i was planning on coming back home in childrens summer holidays with two other couples (nothing booked yet) but judging by how many people are staying in tallinn there wont be any room for us. Im thinking of moving back so many tourists staying umemployment down sounds like the glory years are back i dont think Reply to the comment answer
~no one important [17.05.2012, 13:41]
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• No support for non-ECC DIMMs
• No support for non-zero Additive Latency
• No support for BL = 8 for host initiated transactions (supported on with MEMBIST).
Only BL=4 supported for host initiated transactions.
• No support for DDR2 protocol and signaling
• Support for integrating RDIMM thermal sensor information into Intel SMI Status
Intel 7500 Scalable Memory Buffer supports the following 2-DIMMs-Per-Channel
(2DPC) configurations for each channel. The two channels are not required to have the
same configuration. Intel 7500 Scalable Memory Buffer also supports one channel
unpopulated, with the other channel having one of the configurations shown below. Reply to the comment answer
~useful.info [17.05.2012, 14:09]
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~cary [16.07.2012, 18:13]
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