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Problems in one of Estonia’s largest real estate agencies

THIS PUBLICATION HAS 42 COMMENTS
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Tarmo Tarmo Tarmo

Hubris and narcistic behavior is not management. Reply to the comment answer
~ungh.... [22.06.2012, 12:53]
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http://gifts.freebiejeebies.co.uk/459138 Reply to the comment answer
~dfd [22.06.2012, 16:15]
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First came the private owners.
They wanted to make a little money by reselling their own property.
They got a little money for what in soviet times was free.

Second came the private, mini companies.
They wanted to make a little money by working very hard and rejuvenating old properties in Tallinn among a few young people who could raise the capital to do it.
Mostly they were the "good ones" and helped the country make progress.

Third came the real estate agencies who thought they could get away with doing nothing at all, speculating on all manner of scams, and property pricing.
They REALLY thought they were making a killing and making huge profit margins, so they could run around in a Hummer and look smart.

These 3rd people destroyed the progress of the 1st & 2nd groups and decisively f..cked the Estonian economy for 20 years.

Now is pay-back time.
Everyone loses money, the Baltic economies are locked in years and years of deleveraging into decades of arguments about the social experimentation that passed for Ansip and his bent, ethno lunatic priveleges of the few.

In 50 years time.
History books will write this as one of the worst most unproductive decades of the last 100 years.
Bubble economy, people dreaming of getting rich quick. Reply to the comment answer
~go for growth [23.06.2012, 17:23]
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Looks like the bubble is about to burst, when it does than estonians will truly know the meaning of the word "poverty". Reply to the comment answer
~Rebane [23.06.2012, 21:54]
You are a few years late in your prediction, Sherlock.
~@Rebane [23.06.2012, 22:16]
No. I already predicted in 1991 that Estonia would become a failed state.
~noup [24.06.2012, 00:10]
Two problems with that load of nonsense: 1) as much as you may wish it, Estonia is nowhere near being a failed state (feel free to prove otherwise if you disagree), 2) Do you seriously think anyone here or anywhere else believes you made such a prediction 21 years ago?
~@noup [24.06.2012, 10:39]
It is irrelevant whether people believe me or not. A lot of experts from the West made predictions that "liberated" Eastern Bloc would fail. I am sure a lot of americans did too. They just don't get enough media attention because its more fun to read that Poland, Ukraine and Baltic tigers are economic self sufficient super states.
~sturmare [24.06.2012, 18:47]
I laugh myself to death:
1.) 1991: Eastern Europe will become a region of failed states (including Poland)
2.) A LOT of experts predict so...LOL (who?)
3.) They were not listen to, because evil media do not want to broadcast/ write about these serious predictions...

I am not sure but convinced that many thought about serious problems, especially in the early nineties, but a whole region as a collection of failed states? LOL...The libraries are full of books and journals that are not controlled through the evil media or other actors of conspiracy theories. And the literature on transition in Eastern Europe has a broad consensus that is not about "failed states".

I love the bbn-forum. The best informed intellectuals of the western world unite here. LOL
~LOL [24.06.2012, 22:20]
Failed State= economic problems/ debts? May be you take a closer look at the concept of "failed states". The concept of failed states refer to problems of the state and his sovereignity and not debts. Qatar is on nearly the same level as Estonia (139/140). Does it mean that Estonia is filthy rich? No, of course not as the concept is something different.
Always repeating the "debt-song" doesnt turn Estonia into a failed state. The failed-state argumentation is just a sign of ignorance. And argumentation against this is not propaganda.
~LOL [25.06.2012, 21:23]
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1991 You made a prediction.... Yawn. Who cares, lots off people make predictions that never matter. Estonia is far from a failed state, could things have been done different or better, sure, the gift of hindsight is always clear. The question is do a people learn from its mistakes? Hopefully so, but rarely its the case.

Look at Russia, have they diversified the economy or elected officials who build the country versus enrich their pockets? Ei.

Is America any better, slightly but not by much.

Estonia is a success by any measure but it is still a work in progress. Reply to the comment answer
~really rebane [24.06.2012, 13:22]
Agreed!
~@ [24.06.2012, 18:42]
Keep telling yourself that Eesti economy boosted by loans and EU funds is a success story. Progress? Yes really progress indeed. Estonia now has the highest percentage of HIV in Europe after Ukraine.
~sure pal [24.06.2012, 18:43]
Is there a double-dip recession here? Is umemployment at 24.8%? Has Estonia needed bailout funds? Wake up, pal. Just because you wish Estonia was a failed state won't make it happen. LOL!
~@sure pal [24.06.2012, 20:29]
Estonia has had more EU funds per head of population than almost anywhere else.

If Estonia weren't a failed state they would already be giving as much funding to the EU as they get.

Fact is,it's a one way street, just as it was under the old Soviet Union, which built whole towns, the sewers & water mains under your streets, developed the current electricity generation and even supplied the trams.
Even the railway lines are russian gauge and most of the rolling stock is old Russian stuff.

If anyone can see any difference in this old pattern kindly say so.

The only qualititative difference is, the young generation can go and look for work elsewhere, which they weren't allowed to do in the 80s.

One group of corrupt crony government driving around in Volgas has now been replaced by another group driving around in subsidised Volvos.
~old failings [25.06.2012, 08:38]
You seriously need to go back to school. Look up the definition of a failed state and see why you are talking total rubbish as usual. How is it that the EU, UN, economists etc are not calling Estonia a failed state? There is only your twisted opinion without anything to back it up.

Regarding the crumbling infrastructure built here during the Soviet times, we've been through that one before and your argument got totally trashed. What was built here used mostly local labor and local resources. Do you really think those sh-thole blocks of flats were built by temp workers and cement/bricks sent from Moscow? Regarding all the other investments made here by the Soviets, they were more than paid for by all the resources taken from Estonia. It wasn't a one-way street at all.
~@old failings [25.06.2012, 09:39]
Ah, I forgot you were the one claiming some time back how Leningrad would have starved if it hadn't been for Estonia,or something to that effect.

If it were the case let's say that Estonia paid for all the incoming infrastructure investment (which btw you are still using every day aren't you, so not so crumbling as we might like to say!)...then how come Estonia has to beg funds in a singularly one way manner for nearly 10 years, to renew the same infrastructure only partially....

I mean do you all have NEW TRAMS, NEW TRAINS, NEW DRAINS suddenly?

Seems the (very large) EU strutural funds budget must have only been tiny compared with the vast resources mobilised by the USSR for a period of 40-50 yrs...

You were of course aware the railway line from Narva to Tallinn was going to have a massive planned expansion under the USSR.
You can still see vestiges of it all over Eastern Estonia.

I have no doubt it would already have been electrified all the way from SPB to Tallinn by now,with a regular train service between the 2 cities.

What have you got now?
A few extra roads, some quirky modern second class hotels with low occupancy in central Tallinn.

A tourist industry which doesn't even rival St Petersburg, which has developed a massive motorway complex in 5 years and an airport which you can actually call an international one...

how many more proofs of a failed state do you want.

Look at Helsinki or Turku or Stockholm.

FFS you've had 20 years now....not 5,and you're still claiming to get rich sometime soon.
So when will that be? in 2100?
~remember this one [25.06.2012, 15:30]
Please find and post PROOF that Estonia is a failed state that meets the international definition of it instead of your usual prevarications. Also, be so good as to show the video and/or documentation showing actual begging for funds. That should be entertaining.

And you still haven't solved your logic problem of comparing huge countries with small ones. You seem to have no sense of appropriate scale nor the ability to make meaningful comparisons. Your logic is either all over the place or non-existent. I know you can't help it as it is a product of your defective education. Maybe you should take some courses.

BTW, did you enjoy living in one of those Soviet blocks of flats during your time in Ida Virumaa? Be honest. Everyone here knows what they are. I don't know a single person who says that are good places to live in.
~@esti=NO [25.06.2012, 18:59]
Say, Estonian Propaganda Guy, serious question. What is your salary structure over there at the Ministry, for responding ad hoc to negative posts on different threads all over this website? Do you get paid a regular monthly salary? Or is it per thread? Or is it even more generous than that - each individual answer, like the many above, earns you a set amount? And do you get different rates for responding to the general "estonia is crap" poster and to specific repeat offenders like Esti=No, about whom you have to collate and retain facts and quotes over a period of years to shove back in his face? Seriously, concerned readers would like to know that such dedication to the party line is adequately rewarded.
~questions about the Ministry [25.06.2012, 19:23]
Check out http://www.fundforpeace.org/global/?q=fsi

Got anything to counter that?If not, are You man enough to admit Estonia is NOT a failed state and You were wrong?
~Just the facts [25.06.2012, 20:12]
I notice that Estonia ranks somewhere between Argentina and Hungary in the international ranking, both of which are pretty obvious failures, with Argentina just waiting to default again,& Hungary with such large amounts of foreigner demoninated consumer debt it will follow Greece into default soon also.

What's wrong with being a failure?
Only fear of failure and failure to admit failure are untreatable pathologies.

Estonia seems to have both in pretty good measure which is why there's little hope for the country in its current form.

Oh so sorry, now I'm comparing little Hungary with little Estonia.
Maybe I got that wrong too?

oooohhhh please can I go back to your Estonian economics classes again??

I keep failing the propaganda guy's exams!
~failure [25.06.2012, 20:41]
Esti=NO just cant do facts. Come on, pony up some proof or admit You have made another FAILED statement again. As You say, 'What's wrong with being a failure?
Only fear of failure and failure to admit failure are untreatable pathologies.'
~Thems the facts. Deal with them!!! [25.06.2012, 21:20]
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according to the Failed States Index of 2009, Estonia was on the borderline, don't know how it ranks today

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2009/06/22/2009_failed_states_index_interactive_map_and_rankings Reply to the comment answer
~angrybird [25.06.2012, 15:08]
The 2011 ranking says that Estonia is stable!
Estonia's ranking is 140
Zimbabwe: 6 (critical)
USA: 158 (stable)
Latvia: 135 (borderline)
~LOL [25.06.2012, 16:14]
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Estonia is not a failed State, but, it is a "challenged" State. While it has things to boast about in terms of low deficits, etc., it comes on the backs of its Citizens who not only have given up a great percentage of their income, many of whom are now unemployed, a dwindling population both by birth and migrating out of the country, high social disease increases, high prices, and inequities in living standards between those in high positions and the middle (teachers, etc., midlevel management) and lower classes, and suffering pensioners. A lot to deal with for a small Country in need of systemic change politically, economically, and socially. Good luck! Reply to the comment answer
~Ken [29.06.2012, 03:27]
I agree with all you said but you have just described half of Europe at the same time.
~Bad Company [29.06.2012, 08:23]
The problem with the half of Europe which didn't have a huge chunk of ex communist countries suddenly added to it (without any proper consultation it must be said!), was they have at least solid experience of running sound economies with good industrial bases.

The constant whining and repeating you here from a lot of Eastern Europe ranges from "we deserve to be aided", then "we feel entitled to this money because it we don't ever have to pay it back".

The shit is now hitting the fan, and far from gloating over the so called shortcomings of the countries who have MASSIVELY put their hands in their pockets to help you, a little damn humility from basic economic illiterates wouldn't go amiss.

The day you get on your feet and survive without your motorways showing a star panel (Made with EU money), you can be proud.

Everyone else has done it, and Germany inherited a bankrupt Honnecker run, Stasi skunked east.

You people in Estonia haven't even started, and that's now 20 years you've fired the starting gun and wanted to be "independent".
~half of Europe [29.06.2012, 17:46]
'they have at least solid experience of running sound economies with good industrial bases.' Yeah, slick, so much experience that not only did THEY take Eastern Europe into the EU club with open arms they also CAUSED the crisis. Was it Eastern Europe that caused the sub-prime crisis or give out questionable loans in the trillions of euros? Which countries have the banks that are now being investigated for manipulating the Libor and Euribor rates for the better part of a decade and ripping off half of the planet in the process? You talk about corruption in Estonia and other Easten European countries, but what has been happening with the banks in the West shows that the true masters of deception and corruption are from YOUR neck of the woods.
~LOL at half-baked (aka half of europe) [29.06.2012, 20:03]
The weekend has started! Get your popcorn and beer! Sit back and enjoy The Main Event: Esti=No vs Estonian Propaganda Guy! Going around in the same old circles with no resolution! A spectacle for all ages! Come one, come all!
~WEEKEND [29.06.2012, 23:36]
Ah,but AT LEAST we know how to manipulate stuff properly in the west.

All you kiddies were doing for 70years was scrounging first off Russia, then off Brussels.
That's whole lifetimes financed by other people.

Take off the "Europe finances my country panels on every major road", and make some proper stuff you can sell, not hot air based on IT, which is already obsolete by the time it's on the market and we shall see.

Haven't you noticed the big hoo-haa you made out of the Esti ID card, and how great it's supposed to be, and how everyone is running to use an Estonian IT solution throughout the EU,then hey presto companies want to send their business to Latvia and Lithunia instead.

Estonia is only superior in it's world class arrogance.
~propaganda special [30.06.2012, 15:17]
Of course it is a failed state. Most failed parts are Pärnu and Narva.
~ukr book [30.06.2012, 16:18]
Reading retention still a problem, eh? Check previous threads for why all you just said is just so much flatulence worthy of Al Gore's wrath.
~@propaganda special [30.06.2012, 18:14]
Not much of an answer, Estonian Propaganda Guy. Surely they pay you for wittier and more cutting comebacks extolling the glories of infallible Estonian government policies than, "Check previous threads"? I mean, if you're going to give up a Saturday to come in to the Ministry building to work, you might as well do a proper job of it.
~Disappointed [30.06.2012, 20:25]
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Dear Bad Company: I apologize for not including my own Country, the U.S. of A., for many of its ills and instances of mismanagement due to vested interests who seem to care less about the consequences of their ill gotten gains. We are all in a World of hurt, but at least there are civil venues to discuss and debate matters. At times I am embarrassed by my Country and its politics and the behavior of its Citizens toward one another and the World. Our attitude of "exceptional-ism", especially by the far Right, leaves many of us pretty self-righteous in much of what we do to each other and on the World stage. Reply to the comment answer
~Ken [29.06.2012, 16:49]
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